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Thread: Anybody else sick and tired of winter?

  1. #1
    Senior Member dani3d's Avatar
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    Anybody else sick and tired of winter?

    I have not been able to wash my car for a month and half now, because it's so darn cold. Now it's -22C, and it's going to be -25C overnight. Not a single day warm enough to wash the car so my car is really dirty!

    sigh...

    Also when I start the car in the morning with the block heater plugged in, the engine often stall, then I have to start it again and the second time it's OK. Is that normal?

    It does not do this when it's not plugged in and it always start first time. wierd!


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    Senior Member lbarouf's Avatar
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    Hi Dani,

    It's funny that you mention block heater and slow cranking, I had this exact discussion less than a week ago with a friend.
    Here's my take on it:

    To start the engine, the starter draws power from the battery, and needs to move the crankshaft. Out of this equation, oil viscosity isn't the biggest issue in our weather. I believe by -25C, the battery can't deliver more than half of its CCA rating... when new.
    Since you probably have 5W30, the viscosity will be high, but not like molasses at these siberian temperatures. The issue is the battery feels weak at that temperature, and therefore it's the energy required to start the car that is the biggest concern; not the resistance.

    Mine starts fine. It's a manual without block heater. What I may install is a battery warmer and insulator. I will see if I can fit a insulator casing around the battery and heater in lieu of the current set-up. A 50W battery warmer should be plenty for the colder nights. Many mechanics (well, maybe two or three really) have told me, to preserve your battery, you need to keep it away from heat and cold as much as possible. Insulator would shield it from the engine heat, and keep it as warm as possible. This will allow the brawn to be in top shape when comes the time to move that crankshaft stuck in the maple taffy we have instead of oil.

    Many will say, the car won't start the same when engine block is heated. I tend to agree on oil getting sort of "lazy".

    I will try to get 0W30 for winter, and for the forecasted colder nights below -20, a cabin heater on timer for an hour before leaving, and heated battery.

    What I noticed this morning, was the clutch being pretty slow, as if IT was in molasses. That one I'll see if there oil with a W rating for. It made shifting a little awkward for the first 30min.

    Anyway, my 2 cents. I wouldn't use a block heater after my next oil change, and I wouldn't be surprised if it starts better. 0W30 may help as well. But I feel it should start no problem. Nights have been around -28 here in Ottawa, you shouldn't be worst.

    Cheers.

    P.S: I used to live way up north, so I don't mind the cold that much. I ain't that tired of yet.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.6 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.5 mpg (US) ...


  3. #3
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Dani -- this is what I think might happen: the engine runs on different fuel enrichment depending on what the coolant temperature sensor is reporting. It needs full enrichment for a cold start. Since the block heater probably doesn't heat the coolant uniformly all through the engine, I wonder if the computer thinks the engine is warmer than it really is, so it doesn't provide enough fuel enrichment for that first start on a very cold morning.

    Even so, there's an overall benefit to using the block heater... personally I would always use one when I have the chance. Even if it means 2 tries.

    Battery warmer would help if slow cranking is the problem. But it doesn't sound like that's the issue.

    EDIT: I may copy your comments to the block heater thread, too.

    ---

    I've had a lot of fun this winter (cross-country skiing, snowboarding, skating).... But I'm ready for this one to go away. Fortunately (!!!), the long range forecast shows this weekend is probably the last time we see the really cold temperatures (eastern Ont). Goodbye -20C during the day.

    Bon weekend! Have a good one.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


  4. #4
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Yikes: coldest February on record

    Holy crud! I didn't realize it was THAT cold...

    I just read that Ottawa is on track for the coldest February on record:

    For the first 12 days this month, Ottawa’s average temperature, day or evening, has been -14.8 C. The lowest February average on record was -14.3, in 1979.
    http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ecord-for-cold

    That's 2 years in a row with record cold. (January last year?)

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


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    Senior Member dani3d's Avatar
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    wow, that could very well explain it! It's the most logical explaination yet.

    It does not feel like a battery problem, more like there is not enough gas reaching the engine and it stall. Then when I restart it the second time it start normal. This is hapening every time it's very cold and I have the car plugged. I think you got it.

    thanks!


    Here too we have busted all records for coldest average. My guess is the first day over 0C will be in the first week of March, not before. The normal average here should be -5, and 0 on March 1st.




    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Dani -- this is what I think might happen: the engine runs on different fuel enrichment depending on what the coolant temperature sensor is reporting. It needs full enrichment for a cold start. Since the block heater probably doesn't heat the coolant uniformly all through the engine, I wonder if the computer thinks the engine is warmer than it really is, so it doesn't provide enough fuel enrichment for that first start on a very cold morning.

    Even so, there's an overall benefit to using the block heater... personally I would always use one when I have the chance. Even if it means 2 tries.

    Battery warmer would help if slow cranking is the problem. But it doesn't sound like that's the issue.

    EDIT: I may copy your comments to the block heater thread, too.

    ---

    I've had a lot of fun this winter (cross-country skiing, snowboarding, skating).... But I'm ready for this one to go away. Fortunately (!!!), the long range forecast shows this weekend is probably the last time we see the really cold temperatures (eastern Ont). Goodbye -20C during the day.

    Bon weekend! Have a good one.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra SR automatic: 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp) ... 14.3 km/L ... 33.6 mpg (US) ...


  6. #6
    Senior Member AlphaMicra's Avatar
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    It could also be your gas. Try filling up at a station that touts "Winter Gas."

    In our culture obsessed with absurd excess, the Nissan Micra is my counterculture car of choice.
    Be sure to visit my blog at mymicra.com!

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra SV manual: 6.4 L/100 km ... 44.3 mpg (Imp) ... 15.7 km/L ... 36.9 mpg (US) ...


  7. #7
    Senior Member dani3d's Avatar
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    Not the gas for sure, as I gas at different station and this always happen when plugged and when It's very cold. All the gas stations here in winter use winter formulated gas. It's seasonal thing. There is no summer gas here during winter, and no winter gas during summer.

    The companies change their blend according to the season and location.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMicra View Post
    It could also be your gas. Try filling up at a station that touts "Winter Gas."
    Last edited by dani3d; 02-14-2015 at 09:27 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra SR automatic: 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp) ... 14.3 km/L ... 33.6 mpg (US) ...


  8. #8
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Correct. Fuel companies switch to winter grade gas, which has an corrosion inhibitors, and and a few anti-icing agents. Its regulated by CAPP and they all follow it. So gas line anti-freeze? You don't need it. Fuel injector cleaner? Don't need it either in Canada.

    Now your clutch runs on DOT3 if I remember correctly. I cant remember if it slaves off the brake system or is an independent system. There isn't much that can be done about that.

    Every 10'c you loose you effectively reduce your CCA by 50%. A few ways to counteract this are to add a battery blanket that you plug in. You can also switch to a synthetic oil that has better winter properties or an oil grade recommended in the owners manual or an oil pan heater.

    (This: http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answe.../questions.htm )

    Also, if you should buy this heater, make sure the oil pan is magnetic.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Howie For This Useful Post:

    lbarouf (02-17-2015)

  10. #9
    Senior Member micrapolis's Avatar
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    i feel soooo lucky to be in vancouver

    thats all i have to say.

  11. #10
    Senior Member lbarouf's Avatar
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    Yeah, the issue with winter it's not always the weather itself, but some people on the road while weather is bad.
    This was around Kingston saturday morning.

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    We were on a dead stop. Kids were doing snow angels on the highway behind the micra. Took 13hours instead of 9. Great.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.6 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.5 mpg (US) ...


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