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Thread: Fuel Types: What you need to know.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Fuel Types: What you need to know.

    Often times where I work, we tend to slide into the position of working in fuel farms, and testing of refinery ordered fuels before they go into aircraft or even ground vehicles. I'm going to let you in on a few things that I have learned on course, and through working with Shell, Petro-Can, Ultramar and the like, as well as experience.

    87, 89, 91, 104 octane- which is best for my car?


    The best fuel for your car is what the manufacturer recommends. Whatever is in the manual is best for your stock car PERIOD.

    In our case, that is bronze. Or 87 octane, whatever you want to call it, the cheap stuff is best. The only cars that really need High octane fuel are ones with high compression engines (but through neat head designs, this is fading) and forced induction engines. Don't wast money on premium fuel if you don't have to.

    But premium fuels have more cleaners.
    False. This is a lovely thing called marketing. Remember, the fuel that is in your engine only sits in the chamber for a billionth of a second. CAPP (Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers) and the Government both have stringent regulations of what it is allowed in fuels and what isn't. All gasolines have detergents in them as per the specifications set by them, all grades.

    Ok smart arse, what about winter gas?
    Also false. This was Petro-cans wonderful marketing genius. The same agencies above require a specific amount of DIA (De-Icing agent) and CI (corrosion inhibitor) in fuels to prevent freezing and fuels from damaging the fuel lines from inside. Very rarely will you see a fuel line rust from the inside-out. All grades have it.

    There are less contaminants in premium fuels.
    This one is a tough one to answer because I honestly don't know. But lets put a look at the filter points. At the refinery the fuel is filtered to specification. After that it is placed into holding tanks where it goes through another set of filters and a water separator before it gets into the truck. After its in the truck, it has to be filtered again before it is put into the tanks at the gas station. When you squeeze the pump the fuel is pumped from the tank again, where it goes into a fuel/water separator system again, (in case you were curious whats in the bottom of the pump itself) and another filter on the line before it reaches the nozzle. With all these filters, how can it be possible to get bad gas?

    There's lots of ways. Every time it moves, there is possibility of contamination. Rust. Dirt. Water. All possible. This is why there are so many filters in the chain. So that way when the fuel transfers, its clear, dry and clean. Ideally. Realistically its just to clear liability but It does work.

    Old gas is another problem. Its why modern refueling storage systems have a recirculate system in place. Even tanker trailers have it. Fuel naturally breaks down when stored for a long period of time. Fuel stabiliser helps this. But most people burn it through the car before it starts to break down.

    As well, we have 2 other filters. In some cars there is a particulate screen in the filler neck, and another at the fuel pump, and some also have a fuel filter on the fuel line before it meets the engine.

    So why is premium thought to be cleaner? Simply put- it doesn't get bought as much. The more you use a distribution system, the more chance for contaminants to be passed. If you buy a fuel tank of 10,000L of premium fuel, you might go through that in 2 months. If you have 10,000L of regular grade, a week. The more you use, the higher the risk of contaminant and system wear.

    But you also have fuel that been sitting longer going with premium. Tough, isnt it?

    What about nitrogen enriched fuels?

    A dual edged sword. Nitrogen enriched fuels DO have a positive cleaning effect on engine components. It is true. Ill give it that. However there is a negative effect on engine performance and slightly increased NOx emissions. However, if your engine is dirty, your going to have roughly the same effect and the same losses. If someone switched your gas to nitrogen enriched fuels, you likely wouldn't notice, unless you do engine teardowns.

    What about fuel injector cleaners.

    As I said, gasoline already has detergents built in to keep these clean, however, it likely wouldn't hurt to toss some in once in a while. Especially for those that have direct injection engines.

    What brand should I buy?

    This isn't so much of who's gas but where. What you want to look for is a modern pump. You should be able to see the filter on the nozzle hose and its installation date should be on the pump. Raised port covers in the ground indicate proper drainage of the storage tanks. A clean facility likely keeps up on changing the pump system filters and hose inline filter. If there is a lot of business you will likely get fresh fuel as it hasn't sit in a tank. If your looking for a good station, don't go to ones that accept fuel in the rain or heavy snow, or do (dips) in bad weather. Chances are pretty good that if your going to the place that everyone else is going and its a nice gas station and is clean, you will be fine.

    Where don't I want to get gas.

    Well the opposite of above of course.

    If you buy gas at night you get more gas because its colder and takes up less space.
    Almost true. But all pumps certified by Industry Canada will automatically be corrected to 15'c. That being said, to tell this you're looking for a sticker that looks like this:



    If the certification falls outside of the dates it should be inspected, then dont bother getting gas there. It may be inaccurate.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Howie For This Useful Post:

    lbarouf (09-13-2015),LilGeckos (09-16-2015),MetroMPG (09-14-2015),micrapolis (09-16-2015)

  3. #2
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Dang it, I was hoping not to have to learn anything today.

    "Old gas"

    Got a good old gas story: my '98 Firefly is a bit of a barn find. It had been parked for 7 years in the owner's garage, never moved. So yes, there was 7 year-old gas in it. When I went to see the car and take it for a short test drive, it actually started perfectly and ran fine. But the gas definitely smelled off. I drained the tank & put fresh stuff in before I drove it home (100 km highway run).

    Then I gradually fed the old gas back to the car over a couple of tanks, much diluted with fresh fuel.

    My old 2-stroke boat engine, on the other hand, will not start/run reliably on even 1 year old gas. Must use stabilizer if there's fuel in the tank at the end of the year.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


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    Senior Member lbarouf's Avatar
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    I was coming back using upstate vermont and upstate new york roads, and saw these old gas stations in the reserves. They folks pumping because it was like 2 cents less a gallon! But they sure didn't look maintained, and sure no filter replacement. Then there was this speaking new gas service station right outside the reserve limit as barely a cent us more. I stopped there of course. Funny enough enough the guy came to window and said, thank you for buying american. I prefer busy stations usually, but Anon, you bring a good point, more use means more tear. Not certain about the coronation since the gas contains the anticorrosion.

    Anonymous, you're in aviation? Would you know of a way to install a drain valve like the ones found on high wing fixed aircrafts. This way I could finally do a good walk around my car and check the gas with my fuel tester tool.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.6 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.5 mpg (US) ...


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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Hehe.. Not my field of expertize my friend. Putting fuel in is something I can do for you, And I can test it.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Hehe.. Not my field of expertize my friend. Putting fuel in is something I can do for you, And I can test it.
    So you can do reliable testing for AKI ratings?

    You make alot of great points, and I totally agree with you.

    There is one thing Id like to add. Ethanol contain.

    Page 9-4&9-5 of your manual.

    "At least 87 AKI ( 91Ron)" bare minimum required.
    "Your vehicle is not designed to run on E-15 (15% ethanol)" ((so why would 10% ethanol be the best, if 5% more ethanol, or 2,050ml of a 41litre tank, can " adveresly affect the emissions control devices and systems of the vehicle"

    gasoline cotaining oxygenates
    "Such as ethanol....Nissan does not recommend the use of fuels which the oxygenate content and fuel compatibility for your nissan cannot be readily determined"
    So how much ethanol " exactly" is in that gas stations specific pump.
    Some use 15% in base so they meet the requirement across the board.
    Others use 10% in all. Do you know for sure, for sure?

    "If you DO use oxygenated gas, please use the following precautions"

    Whoa... Precautions?!? So if I avoid oxygenates im better off?
    1. Fuel rating NO LOWER then the recommended one. 87AKI & 91RON
    which I guess kinda gives us the MON rating of 84 (M+R/2= 87)

    So what is the mon,ron and "determined AKI rating" of these ethanol fuels.

    Isnt the ron and mon of ethanol based fuels different then "pure" gas?

    2. If a oxygenate other then methanol...( eg ethanol) It should contain
    NO MORE then 10% ( so less is better )

    Mtbe can be 15%

    Methanol: no more then 5%

    "If any driveability problems such as engine stallingand difficult hot starting are experienced after using oxygenated fuels,
    IMMEDIATLY change to a non-oxygenate fuel or a low blend (5-10%) mtbe blend"

    So using no oxygenates ( such as ethanol ) is the best fuel, recommended by the manufacturer.
    Its in the book.

    So to recap 87AKI(91ron) or higher, and 10% or less enthanol ( better if none )
    The only fuel that I know that contains zero ethanol is shell v-power 91.

    I also run heavy load, hi rev, with less restrictive intake and exhaust. So more air. IMO, for me, thats what works, thats how I interpret it.
    http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ON

    Shell, esso ( premium ) - trusted

    Shell uses enough so it doesnt get old, but not so much that it can get dirty.

    Some independent stations use no ethanol and so does some grades at canadian tire/costco.

    But IMO, i prefer shell.
    Last edited by IMPUL; 09-14-2015 at 07:19 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.8 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.6 mpg (US) ...


  7. #6
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    FYI, a few years ago I contacted a few companies and they ALL said their premium grade is ethanol free. That was Canadian Tire, ESSO and I forget the other one. Probably Shell.

    This is also important to know if you're buying gas for small engines that aren't rated for ethanol.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


  8. #7
    Petro and sunoco converted petro stations use ethanol in all grades.
    Even the 94.

    There has been debate and testing on vpower 91 vs sunoco 94 for years, but with turbo'd cars. From japan requiring 98ron.
    91 running slightly retarded timing ran better then 94 and you used more 94 then 91.

    So. It was then craved in stone .. Thou shall use vpower 91 .. Becuz racekar.. Lol

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.8 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.6 mpg (US) ...


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    Senior Member micrapolis's Avatar
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    "The best fuel for your car is what the manufacturer recommends. Whatever is in the manual is best for your stock car PERIOD.
    "

    THANK YOU. so much misconception on this point.

    And all the marketing BS over Nitro and the 'special' branded stuff from the gas stations...man, i feel bad for ppl who fall for that.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPUL View Post
    So you can do reliable testing for AKI ratings?
    We do have a flame box measuring system for AKI RON But there isnt really much of a requirement for it where I work. Our Gasoline is purchased as lowest grade, there isn't really any reason to. Even our new high performance police cars run on regular grade fuel, but they are built for that requirement.

    For our flying fleet, we don't use AVGAS for much of anything these days, judging by your comments, im thinking your flying something like a cessna, or similar. We do have the AVGAS underwing test kits available if that's what your meaning, but its very rare we have to do those tests- usually when someone gets lost and lands on the strip by mistake, or in an in flight emergency situation. Or if the 2 bell goes off. Or if a vintage bird comes in that needs it.

    We use a modified JET-A called NATO F37 (JP8 + 100 {CI, Deactivator, and antioxitant}. We call it "viper' additive as its practically instant-cancer when touched by the skin. Lots and lots of protective equipment involved. But we perform quality checks similar to everywhere else in aviation, standard water checks and conductivity checks before it leaves the tender, etc.
    Last edited by Howie; 09-16-2015 at 07:21 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


  11. #10
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    Does anyone know who CT buys their gas from? I think the CT premium works even better than the Shell vpower in my Micra. This is beginning to get repetitive at first I was using the Sunoco/petro can 104 gold stuff then IMPUL turned me on to the Shell vpower and I was sold but now CT premium seems even better. I know it was -8 out this morning and everything but I had the same tank of fuel for five days which is rare for me. Maybe the shell and CT are the same or something thats why I would like to know what oil company they buy it from.



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