Thread: Problems ALREADY! (engine knocking at certain RPM - HR16DE - solved)

  1. #371
    Senior Member L1ghtninchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPUL View Post
    Ya thats where i hear noise. 1st and 2nd same rev range.
    I usually dont even hear it. 1 because racekar, 2 music, 3 im not betwwen 1700-2500 very long.

    If im doubling idle 800 ( suppose to be 650 ) then im engaging 1st 1200-1600 then it fully engaged 1500-2000. Anything above 1/4 throttle shoots thur that next 500-1000 rpm quickly.. So i never get a chance to take it in fully.

    I have been paying attention lately. I have noticed it earlier, but sluffed it off as some other rattle.

    Now im starting to think other wise. Which means if it is, and its the same noise its been like that since new :O

    Not cool.
    Texted u never heard but Msg me so we can meet up and test this.



  2. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by L1ghtninchris View Post
    Texted u never heard but Msg me so we can meet up and test this.
    Ya we going to have too.
    I just found a quiet road and in 1st gear 2000-2500rpm load 15-20
    I can DEFINITELY hear a marble/rattle/light quick paced jack hammering sound.

    Its as you have all described. Not as loud from the drive seat( especially with my exhaust drone masking it)
    But its there. Ive heard that sound in the rev range since new. A passenger even mentioned it. I lol'd and said "its a new car, probably just frequency viberating something.

    Now I am legit concerned.

    I hope there is an aftermarket part soon as this is obviously bigger then we think and affects more cars then we first thought. Since its the rod bearing, and the engines are the same, a replacement engine is a bandaid. Here, new engine, happy? What could go wrong now?
    Ummm, the exactsame thing? Problem is most techs these days wouldnt know how to replace them. And I for one wouldnt have confidence in some apprentice tearing into my internals in an open and dusty dirty shop.
    Last edited by IMPUL; 10-08-2015 at 08:42 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 7.7 L/100 km ... 36.8 mpg (Imp) ... 13.0 km/L ... 30.6 mpg (US) ...


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  4. #373
    Senior Member gonzagnr's Avatar
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    impul, your car was also a 2015 model with series 80 engine right???.
    Nissan tip is clear, replace all internals.

    Replacing the engine is not a fix.
    If after having all internals replaced engine still knocks, probably is a design fault, like cylinder 3 problems on old versa 1.8 engine, thay had to stop making that engine because how unreliable that "renault" was, and was replaced by the m8r now in the sentra.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 March manual: 6.9 L/100 km ... 41.1 mpg (Imp) ... 14.6 km/L ... 34.2 mpg (US) ...


  5. #374
    Senior Member dani3d's Avatar
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    Yep, it's a bashing fest here, and why I don't come much any more.


    Quote Originally Posted by ptbo micra View Post
    Just an administrative reminder to keep things in this thread factual. Please do share information collected, but please refrain from straight up insults and profanity aimed at any users or at nissan as an entity.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra SR automatic: 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp) ... 14.3 km/L ... 33.6 mpg (US) ...


  6. #375
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    I wish i could drop the pan and do some measurements myself. Or even look at the design. Maybe there is something we can see. With the engines heading back to Nissan, they must be doing some sort of R&D as to why...

    It seems to be a failure on the #2 rod. But why number 2 specifically? I was originally thinking it might be some kind of lubrication issue specific to that cylinder that causes the bearing to fail. Maybe a journal is drilled too small.

    One member was mentioning there is a coolant hookup nearby. Does someone have the tech manual for the HR16DE?

    NVM Found one. http://www.manualslib.com/manual/563...an-Engine.html

    Lets have a look see here.
    Last edited by Howie; 10-08-2015 at 10:45 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


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  8. #376
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    Hope your engine doesn't go south on you Dani.. Id like to hear what lovely things you'd have to say about Nissan if it did. Oh right you'd just complain "Bash" like everyone else affected.
    Last edited by Robm6981; 10-08-2015 at 10:45 PM.

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  10. #377
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Hmm. Looks like the bearings in these things are pretty standard.. There is an oil journal on the block that has a small hole in it to feed the bearing and lube the cap. There is also an oil hole on the top of the connecting rod that feeds the top of the bearing as well. All the bearings are common crush bearings. It is possible debris from that might get into the oil journals and plug it.

    Also interesting to note is the standard play is .098 - .26mm, the limit is .3mm.. That is a really really small amount. The clearance required is .024-.034 of a mm. Were talking, stupid small.

    End point is that the engine has two ways for oil to get to that bearing, and the clearance is tight. The fact that these are going at varying mileages leads me to think there is something not being filtered out or perhaps gunk deposits. Maybe improper cleaning at the assembly line or they simply aren't big enough. Perhaps deposits are forming during break in?

    I still think the NC is likely investigating this. The fix is probably stupidly simple too.

    I don't think that this is an abuse/underuse thing either. The micra's that raced at the cup or the targa would all have it as well, and we haven't heard anything from that camp yet.

    Maybe it was an extremely dusty day in Mexico.. Or perhaps the wrong bearings were installed at the factory, they are color coded for a reason to take up the gap...
    Last edited by Howie; 10-08-2015 at 11:16 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


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  12. #378
    Senior Member gonzagnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robm6981 View Post
    Hope your engine doesn't go south on you Dani.. Id love to hear what lovely things you'd have to say about Nissan if it did. Oh right you'd just complain "Bash" like everyone else.
    +11111111111111111111111

    i was told by a guy in mexico that had his engine open and mecanics there took measurements, rod bearing size on that cylinder is incorrect, can share this information, just request via pm, is in spanish.
    they did not tell him how much was the difference, but it was there.
    he says engine knocks less after repair is done, but still knocks, saddly no video, guy is very angry and wants to sell the car.
    i havent been able YET to confirm 100% why is always cylinder 2, he thinks (according to what mecanics said) that rod bearings on this engine are like part of the rod cap, and those comes with a pre established order, so thats why allways is number 2.
    is not a defective oil lubrication, is a defective part, thats for sure, and maybe there are also some design problems (very probable)
    Anonymus, do you have some news about your negotiation with dealer to have car replaced for another model?

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 March manual: 6.9 L/100 km ... 41.1 mpg (Imp) ... 14.6 km/L ... 34.2 mpg (US) ...


  13. #379
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Im not sure its that sinister gonz. Maybe there is some oversight in the production line. As im looking here, each connecting rod is stamped to correspond to the crank. So "A" would go with a "A" type connecting arm. It could be possible that the wrong rods are used. Or wrong bearings. Some might last longer then others which might explain the range they go at. (750km to 34000km)...

    Perhaps a poorly trained worker on the line. As for QC, the only realistic way you would know would be to inspect the parts before they went in. If they put the crank and pistons in and then put the oil pan before it hits QC- they wouldn't know.

    Im fairly sure that this is a manufacturing process defect. Without actually going into the factory and seeing how they are built, we will never know for sure unless Nissan tells us.

    As for negotiation. Well.

    That isn't happening at all. Nissan Canada has told me they do not "buy back" vehicles and will always honor the warranty under the terms. I read that as, they ain't gonna buy it back and would rather keep swapping engines. Im kind of ok with that. Ironic considering the cost of an engine plus installation is likely half the cost of a base model, so if you put 2 engines in it, you have likely exceeded the cost of the car.

    I know it's not that simple. And to them an engine is likely much cheaper then what we would pay for it as a consumer. Might cost them $500 in materials and another $500 to ship it. Then about a grand to have a mechanic toss it in.

    The dealer is trying to come up with a deal to get me out of the car- However the dealer is only giving me 5k for the micra. I still owe 14 on it. Im not carrying the negative debt of the micra, so he really has his work cut out for him. To be honest, Im going to be stuck in the micra, or end up carrying the difference over- I think not.

    Case in point why my change of heart and rage. Nissan Canada is doing what the warranty card is saying they will do. There isn't much I can do about it, so I might as well hope they get me a good engine or fix the problem before the rest of the 4 year warranty runs out or I cross that 100k mark.

    Putting some thought into what the point is isn't going to actually do anything. I just like trying to figure things out.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S automatic: 7.9 L/100 km ... 35.7 mpg (Imp) ... 12.6 km/L ... 29.7 mpg (US) ...


  14. #380
    Senior Member gonzagnr's Avatar
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    yes, wrong rod bearing is the problem according to measurements done in mexico.
    in my opinion they bought a huge number of slightly incorrect size bearings and of course they wont discard the already build engines.
    i understand what you say about QC, but, what i was trying to say is that companys in the QC proccess lets say for every 10.000 items, take one out of production line and test it in depth, despite beign only noticeable with warm engine, when you are doing QC you are looking for small details, so a rod knock can not be detected, also remember these engines are in march, micra, versa, versa note and tiida sedan, so is imposible they did not know about this if they apply a minimum of QC.
    so you are going to have engine replaced again or push them for a full overhaull??


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 March manual: 6.9 L/100 km ... 41.1 mpg (Imp) ... 14.6 km/L ... 34.2 mpg (US) ...


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