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Thread: Future of internal combustion (gasoline) engines

  1. #1
    Senior Member Micra In The Mountains's Avatar
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    Cool Future of internal combustion (gasoline) engines

    Hi everyone, I would like to get a very casual and lively (but hopefully not too terribly heated!) discussion on where you think pure petrol / diesel engines will be heading in the next few years. With Tesla's Model 3 going on sale July 7 (I think?), Volvo's announcement of producing only hybrids & EVs by 2019 and some countries considering banning petrol vehicles, I'd like to get your take on how these events may affect some of your future decisions on getting around, vacation / long road trips, lifestyle changes, vehicle purchases, etc. or not. Here are some articles just to get started:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volv...2019-1.4190649

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...vehicles-2040/

    http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...s-no-easy-task

    For now, let's stick mainly to gasoline engines and we'll try to keep autonomous vehicles and the impending AI singularity out of this discussion...

    As for my wife and I, we're not environmentalists by any stretch, but we do believe in treading lightly and being as self-sufficient & sustainable as possible. We plan on taking good care of and driving the Little Guy for at least the next 10+ years (the Suzuki station wagon our Micra replaced last about 14 years before the 5 speed manual transmission went), and Little Guy may be our last purely gasoline powered vehicle. His replacement will likely be some kind of hybrid AWD vehicle with some off-road capability and moderate towing capacity.

    We're not committed on getting a pure EV at this time due to the current lack of supporting cross-country infrastructure (i.e. a charging station at every street corner), initial purchase costs (w/o government subsidies) and "range anxiety" thru the roof. We would consider a plug-in hybrid like the Volt, where the gas engine is used to charge the lithium battery pack only & has no mechanical connection to the drive wheels. For us to go full electric, it would need to be at least as cost-effective as the Little Guy (less than $20,000 to purchase, can go an average of 500km or longer per charge, hopefully charges to full capacity quicker than overnight, and has similar insurance costs & cost of ownership).

    I'm not sure if it would be possible to completely charge a lithium battery pack that large in the same time it would take to gas up the 40 litre tank in Little Guy, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that there will be some solution to this in the near future, such as wireless charging embedded in the highway...

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...tric-vehicles/

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/q...-we-build-evs/

    Hopefully in 10-15 years the tech and infrastructure would improve to the point where we wouldn't notice much of a difference between the EV and living with the Little Guy. I'm also hoping by then we'll still be allowed to own private cars:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/citie...sive-2 http://

    And not be like the guy in that Luxus IS commercial (I'm sorry but I just had to throw this one in there!):

    https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/01/...is-commercial/

    Now how's this for an off-road rally EV:

    Name:  plug-adventures-plans-10000-mi-a6702dba.jpg
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    https://www.zap-map.com/plug-in-adve...a-nissan-leaf/

    Let the discussion commence!


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    Last edited by Micra In The Mountains; 07-08-2017 at 02:54 AM.
    Nice!

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    MetroMPG (07-11-2017)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Moose's Avatar
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    I figure by 2025 battery cost and power density will make an EV conversion of my Micra practical. Many more formerly gas cars will get the conversion treatment.

    http://www.canev.com/kits.php

    http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Eventually, EVs will be cheaper than gasoline cars. That may take a while, but maintenance and fuel already way lower, power is way better, power control is way better, they're mostly (depending on power source) cleaner and only getting more so, they're also quieter. The two achilles heels for the EV are currently their initial price, and their limited range. The limited range is largely a non-issue with the new generation of EVs coming out with ~250 miles of range. Cost is still an issue of course. Charging is less an issue IMO once you have 250 miles of range.

    I don't know how many of you have driven EVs, but they're really nice. I've only driven a few, but its always been a great experience. My next vehicle will most likely be an EV. Their used prices are really getting low. A used Leaf is less than a new Micra, and they usually don't have a ton of miles on them. I don't need crazy range personally, so a used first gen EV will work great for me. I have a second vehicle for road trips.

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    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    I figure by 2025 battery cost and power density will make an EV conversion of my Micra practical. Many more formerly gas cars will get the conversion treatment.
    I think the growing used market of factory built EV's will be the nail in the coffin for conversion kits, not counting intentionally "unique" vehicles like the original Beetle, etc.

    We're arleady starting to see used, low miles OEM EV's like the Leaf, iMiev and Smart for LESS than the cost of just those conversion kits. And the factory car comes pre-assembled, and the car is included.

    A used Leaf is less than a new Micra
    A LOT less than a new Micra. Although, I'm more familiar with US prices, where it's not unusual to see them from $6-9k.

    ---

    I've driven a few EV's (owned 1 conversion) and a bunch of hybrids (owned 2), and I really like the driving experience, because I'm a nerd.

    I just drove a friend's Chevrolet Bolt a few weeks back, and I think it's probably the quickest car I've ever driven. You can hear the drive wheels starting to spin when you step on the "gas" even at 40 or 50 km/h.

    Unfortunately, a pure EV doesn't really work for me. I mostly bike for local trips, so my car is almost exclusively a highway machine. In winter weather, even a Bolt wouldn't comfortably cover my regular trips to go snowboarding for example.

    Also, I don't really drive a lot, and it's not good for batteries to sit for extended periods, unused. They self-discharge. And it's not an efficient use of energy to keep them permanently on trickle charge.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


  6. #5
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Micra In The Mountains, have you seen Nissan's "e-Power" hybrid Note?

    It uses the drivetrain & components from the Leaf EV, but with a much smaller battery, and a 1.2L triple from the Micra as a generator. So it's a series hybrid, not an EV. (No plug).



    Comparison of the Note vs other hybrids vs. EVs:





    It's outselling the Prius in Japan.

    They're doing a Juke version too. No plans to bring it to North America that I've heard of. But I'd love to try one.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Micra S manual: 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.5 mpg (Imp) ... 20.0 km/L ... 47.0 mpg (US) ...


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